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Date:Mon Oct 30 20:11:32 2001 
Subject:Re: motif libraries, Xved & ved problems. 
From:Aaron Sloman See text for reply address 
Volume-ID:1011030.02 

[To reply replace "Aaron.Sloman.XX" with "A.Sloman"]

Chris Glur <cglur@onwe.co.za> replied to a message from
David Nicholson that has not reached our surver, for some reason:


> David John Nicholson <david@nicholson.f9.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Dear All
> >
> > I have 17 students and a network of  machines raring to go if I can just
> > solve these problems, so any advice would be appreciated.
> >
> > I am using RedHat 7.1 with the Linux rpm distro of POP.

I recommend replacing that rpm with the packaged (tar-ball) version
of linux poplog I recently placed in the Birmingham Poplog
directory. It includes stuff we assembled for a CD for our
students to use.

It is now referred to in the main web file
    http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/poplog/freepoplog.html

But you can go direct to this directory:
    http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/poplog/linux-cd/

This has two files
-rw-r--r--   1 axs         1559 Oct 19 02:00 AREADME.txt
    Short instruction file

-rw-r--r--   1 axs      21863989 Oct 30 00:32 linux-poplog.tar.gz
    21Mbyte file
    including:
        linux poplog linked for use with motif,
        the openmotif RPM (from redhat 7.1 powertools CD),
        various modifications to the poplog directories to make Ved a
            bit easier to use in console mode on a linux PC (previously
            discussed in this forum),
        a lot of the files from the Birmingham setup for research and
            teaching in AI (including corrected/extended versions of many
            of the ancient AI teach files),
        A new simple startup shell script INSTALL_MOTIF_POPLOG
            which
        1. installs poplog in
            /usr/local/poplog/

        2. installs a core collection of Birmingham utilities
            and teach/help files and GUI tools

        3. Builds some saved images like the ones we use in
            Birmingham, e.g. with the "!" pattern matcher prefix
            that allows pop-11 pattern variables to be lvars.
            (including saved images to start up Xved in either
            prolog or lisp mode)

        4. Installs man files for poplog, pop-11, etc.

        5. creates a symbolic link
            /usr/local/bin/poplog
            for running poplog without users having to set up
            their own scripts. E.g. without defining any environment
            variables you can give commands like:

                poplog pop11

                poplog xved

                poplog xved myfile.p

                poplog clisp

                poplog xvedlisp myfile.lsp

            etc.

The tar ball includes other optional things that are NOT installed
by the script, but can be if you wish, e.g. David Young's popvision
package (recently modified to work with 24bit colour), the popneural
package, the extensions for emacs to work with poplog, and some
other things.

I have just remembered that I forgot to include the following
information in the instructions:

    After installing openmotif you should do as root:
        cd /usr/X11R6/lib
        ln -s libXm.so.2 libXm.so

    UNLESS you already have a symbolic link for libXm.so

If you use this and have any problems, please email me direct
as well as posting to the group, in case the news postings somehow
get lost or delayed.


> > I have installed the Linux ditribution of POP and I want to get the xved
> > working, so I am trying to install the motif version.
> > Despite having downloaded the free libraties from the motif website and
> > installed them I stll get a message which says that they are not there.
> > Can anyone help?

You'll need to fix that symbolic link, as above.

Incidentally the openmotif from redhat (included with the tarball)
is a later version than the one at the openmotif website. I don't
know what has changed. But you could uninstall the one you installed
and replace it with the new one, in case it has some bugs fixed!

> > Failing that I have a problem getting the ved to work in a Linux xterm.
> > I think it is something to do with the terminal type

Another problem previously posted to this group. A fix was
suggested by Andrew Sayers, described in
    http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/poplog/bugfixes/

I later extended his fix, and included it in the version of
linux poplog in the above package.

Chris wrote:
> So RedHat 7.1's CD has POP ?

No. I assume David got the version assembled by Graham Higgins
at www.poplog.org

At some point I want to make mine available as an rpm. I know how
to do this with all the saved images already built, but that adds
bulk to the file. I just need to find out how to create the rpm
file with instructions to run the saved image scripts after
installation.

Incidentally, my configuration, unlike the "official" poplog
puts the $poplocal/local directory OUTSIDE the main poplog directory
tree, so that you can do

    rm -rf $usepop

to get rid of an old version, before installing a new one, without
getting rid of your local extensions!

However $poplocalbin (for local saved images) is kept inside the $usepop
directory because the saved images are version-specific and have to be
rebuilt for each version.

> The various configuration combinations involving ved, Xved, xterm, ...
> were much discussed this last 12 months.
> I haven't tried 'with motif'.

Many people like to use the motif widgets with xved, i.e. the
scrollbar and pull-down menus.

My versions based on rclib do not require motif.

>  Is RedHat stuff up to date ?   What is the ver. number ?

It would be very nice if Redhat were to include poplog in their
powertools CD but I don't think they do so.

(My version still needs some tidying up: the scripts are rather
messy. I still plan one day to change some of the sources to fix
problems previously mentioned in this forum.)

> Many of us (especially me) find the non-X version more convenient.
> It has a fast and easy 'stacked windows' facility, and is the way to go
> unless you MUST operate under X.

I also prefer the non-X version and always use Ved in an xterm window.

However I have noticed that we are in a small minority. Most users
prefer Xved, especially students whose brains have been corrupted
by microsoft and think a mouse is a programming device.

Cheers.

Aaron
===
====
Aaron Sloman, ( http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/~axs/ )
School of Computer Science, The University of Birmingham, B15 2TT, UK
EMAIL A.Sloman AT cs.bham.ac.uk   (ReadATas@please !)
PAPERS: http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/cogaff/ (And free book on Philosophy of AI)
FREE TOOLS: http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/poplog/freepoplog.html