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Date:Mon Feb 20 16:54:04 2003 
Subject:Re: worth learning pop11 at university 
From:steve 
Volume-ID:1030220.02 

Hi,

>I'm currently decideing what university to go too, I have got it down too 2,
>and at one I'll be doing AI and pop11 will be my primary language, at the
>other I'll be doing more general computer stuff, and Java or c++ will be
>muy primary language, I f I go to the pop11 I'll teach myself more c++
>(because of my interesting in Linux coding) but I want to know if you think
>pop11 is a usefull language worth learning at ini at my primary language,

Short answer: yes.

Long answer:

It obviously depends on what you hope to learn - AI or the techniques 
of a particular programming language.  Speaking as someone who has 
been doing AI programming professionally for many years, you won't be 
too surprised if I rate the AI knowledge as the more worthwhile.

Sure, C++ is a challenging language to master and, right now, still 
has significant commercial value.  On the other hand, it is very 
tedious to work with and the majority of important C++ programming 
techniques are irrelevant to AI.  Ask yourself this - when you have 
mastered the half-a-dozen or so variants of smart pointers, a 
prerequisite for real world C++ in my view, what have you learned 
about behaviour, intelligence or the architecture of mind?  Zero.

Java is a great deal more relevant to AI study.  You can, with 
determination, do serious AI programming in Java.  But in my opinion, 
this is a unsuitable vehicle for learning how to do AI programming. 
It is OK for the experts because they already know exactly what they 
are trying to achieve.

In my opinion, you need to ensure that your AI course utilizes an 
exploratory programming environment with a very high level 
programming language.  Poplog, which hosts Pop-11, is a very good 
vehicle indeed.  Smalltalk has much to commend it.  Prolog systems 
are typically unsuitable since their IDEs are impoverished - Poplog 
Prolog being a notable exception.  Lisp systems are usually very good 
as well.

So, trying to put myself in your shoes, I certainly would not be put 
off by the fact that a non-commercial programming language is the 
backbone of an AI course.  I would concentrate on the substance of 
the subject (AI, architecture, design & structure) rather than the 
packaging.

-- 
Steve