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Date:Mon Aug 23 09:47:20 2002 
Subject:mouse query from Jonathan Cunning ham 
From:Aaron Sloman 
Volume-ID:1020823.03 


Jonathan posted two queries about poplog on mandrake which did not reach
Birmingham, though I found them on another news server. Strangely Steve
Isard's response did reach Birmingham, which shows how anarchic and
unreliable usenet is. Though his two recent postings (this morning) have
got here from
    m79-mp1.cvx3-a.bre.dial.ntli.NET
via
    uni-berlin.de
for some reason.

By coincidence one of my students just installed poplog on Mandrake 8.2
on a laptop and tells me it all works perfectly (at least everything she
tried before she went away).

The .Xdefaults file I think she was using was this one:
    http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/poplog/setup/Poplib/Xdefaults.poplog

included, with other things in
    http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/poplog/setup.tar.gz
        42 kbytes

Jonathan wrote:
> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 19:06:16 GMT
>
> Subject: Installing poplog on Madrake 8.2


> ...
> once I had a full screen 1024x768 display,

call that a full screen.... ??? [ :-) ]

> ;;; Warning: can't open shared object /usr/X11R6/lib/libXm.so
> (Inappropriate
> ;;;     ioctl for device)

My believe is that this sort of problem can now be solved by doing
this to relink poplog and recreate saved images.

    cd $popsys
    ./poplink_cmnd          ### run shell script to relink
    cp newpop11 basepop11   ### don't use mv
    rm newpop11
    $popcom/mkstartup
    $popcom/makeimages

(The second step may require editing path names in the poplink_cmnd
file if your poplog system is not installed in the "usual" directory.)

> The two xveds are different. The motif version has a menu bar,
> with various things on it: File, Edit, View, Compile and Help.
> The menus seem to work ok, *except* that for the "Help" menu at the
> extreme right, the last couple of menu items open up a new window
> (e.g. "About Poplog").
>
> These new windows do not close when I click on the close box. They
> do go blank, and can still be minimised etc. but they won't go
> away. A forced garbage collection doesn't get rid of them either.

I assume from your later message that this problem has disappeared. I've
never seen it. I have seen this when Xved crashes (occasionally), but
then it affects all Xved windows.

> As additional, additional data, on exiting poplog, the following
> message is repeated n times, where I haven't been able to determine
> beforehand what the value of n will be. It may be related to how
> may xved windows I've opened. It occurs even if I don't open
> the Unremovable Windows of Help.
>
> ;;; WARNING - xtw: X TOOLKIT WARNING (xtRemoveGrab: grabError --
> XtRemoveGrab asked to remove a widget not on the list)

I recently, for the first time, found this when running XVed remotely on
a linux PC cluster even though it doesn't happen on other machines that
I think have the same RedHat linux configuration. But I've not had time
to investigate why.

I understand you no longer have this? Do you know how you got rid of it?

> (5) (Yes, that's right. Question 4 is in the previous paragraph.)
> Since I'm used to interfaces where you select a window, and then
> move the irritating mouse pointer out of the way, I thought at
> first the keyboard wasn't working in xved. It took me a while to
> figure out that the focus was following the mouse *for this one
> window only*, i.e. in order to type in an xved window, I have to
> select it (over the other windows) and also the mouse has to be
> in the edit area, if I move it into the menu bar area the window
> no longer gets keystrokes.

These are window manager functions. I use ctwm (very small, fast, very
reliable, configurable, multiple virtual desktops, no Windows-like
clutter on the desk-top just pinnable menus) and have set up a menu
option to switch between click to focus and focus follows mouse.

When focus follows mouse the mouse can be anywhere including the XVed
menu bar or on the title bar of the window (though ctwm has an option
NoTitleFocus which I don't use).

If I set click to focus then I do find that I have to click in the
Xved window, not the title bar to change input focus. I assume that
is to prevent the focus changing if you happen to move something out
of the way. But having clicked in the edit area I can move the mouse
anywhere and not lose keyboard foucs. So if that does not work for
you it may be a problem with how Ved interacts with the particular
window manager. (I believe that both gnome and KDE have their own
conventions which applications are supposed to conform to, whereas
ctwm just uses the most basic X conventions????)

> What's the magic incantation to tell
> xved to behave the way I'm used to? FWIW, I chose KDE as the
> window environment (instead of Gnome), but I assume that the behaviour
> of xved is independent of the window manager?

See above.

I had a lot of trouble with location of pop-11 graphic windows when I
used tvtwm for my virtual desktop. The problems disappeared as soon as
I switched to ctwm.

In a followup Jonathan wrote:
> Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 08:24:24 GMT
>
> Subject: mouse woes (was: Re: Installing poplog on Madrake 8.2)
> From: Jonathan.Cunningham@tesco.net (Jonathan L Cunningham)
 
> [stuff about mouse clicks]
> >But xved no longer responds to mouse clicks. The status line changes
> >when I move the mouse over a "REF * foo" kind of thing, and if I click
> >a button (any button) the status changes again, but the click has
> >no other effect. I guess xved is processing mouse movement events,
> >and some other events associated with the mouse down, but for some
> >reason is not recognising the mouse click as "button 1" etc. Or
> >it could be something completely different.
> >
> >Any ideas?
>
> Ok, more information.
>
> As far as I can tell, the mouse now works correctly with everything
> *except* xved.

That reduces the likelihood that it is a window manager problem, but
the fact that I can't replicate this using RedHat 7.1 with ctwm suggests
that the window manager may have something to do with it.

> The first thing to try will be relinking poplog, I guess.

The simplest way is to follow my instructions above.

Later you can rebuild corepop and the things that depend on
it, using
    http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/poplog/tools/relinking.linux.poplog

but they don't use X, so rebuilding them should not be necessary.

My hunch is that either its the window manager, or there is something in
your .Xdefaults (or your system's X defaults) that is over-riding the
normal XVed behaviour. You could also try reading the section
  3   XVed Resources

in REF xved.

Aaron
===
====
Aaron Sloman, ( http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/~axs/ )
School of Computer Science, The University of Birmingham, B15 2TT, UK
EMAIL A.Sloman AT cs.bham.ac.uk   (ReadATas@please !)
PAPERS: http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/cogaff/ (And free book on Philosophy of AI)
FREE TOOLS: http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/poplog/freepoplog.html