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Date:Mon Oct 24 10:09:20 2000 
Subject:Re: xved? 
From:Aaron Sloman See text for reply address 
Volume-ID:1001024.01 

[To reply replace "Aaron.Sloman.XX" with "A.Sloman"]

Elan <rebol@techscribe.com> writes:

> ...
> The attempts to use rc_graphic and draw a line in an XWindow window all
> worked, once I ran the poplog.sh file. Apparently I have to execute
> poplog.sh before pop11 has access to the library files (including eliza();
> which previously didn't run either).

Glad to hear it all worked eventually. It is possible to run pop11,
xved, etc. via a shell script that sets the environment variables,
just before invoking any poplog executable.

If you fetch this 17 Kbyte file
    http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/poplog/setup.tar.gz

and untar it into $poplocal/local it will create a directory
local/setup with a file AREADME which tells you to set up a
symbolic link from /usr/loca/bin/poplog after which you can
do things like

    poplog pop11
    poplog xved &
    poplog xved <file> &
    poplog ved
    poplog prolog
    poplog clisp
    poplog pml

without first having to source a file to set up environment
variables.

Others have pointed out that the dependence of Poplog on environment
variables is excessive (partly designed originally to support
a shared Poplog system accessed from a common file store via NFS
but running on different hardware/operating system platforms).

This is one of the things that needs to be changed in a poplog
development project not yet set up!

The setup stuff can be browsed online in this directory

    http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/poplog/setup/

It was actually produced originally for students at Birmingham
who installed Poplog on linux PCs at home.

> New Problem:
>
> I downloaded and installed the menu tarball (including pui). I hope it will
> make it easier for me get started with xved. I installed per instructions
> (first I installed pui, then I installed menu, moving the respective
> directories into the $local directory, and then running the respective
> install shell files). Shortly after I enter menu in xved's command line I
> get a mishap:
>
> ;;; MISHAP - propsheet: SYSTEM NOT LINKED WITH MOTIF OR OPENLOOK

It looks to me as if you fetched the wrong version of Linux Poplog.
The one linked for motif is:

    http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/poplog/new/linuxmotif1553.tar.gz

(It's about 11.7 Mbytes).

When you run Xved do you get a scroll bar on the right, and a few
pulldown menus near the top left labelled file, edit, view compile?
If not, you are running poplog without motif.

You can try relinking instead of fetching the ready linked
version, as follows:

1. unprotect both $popsys and $usepop/pop/extern/lib, the latter
   so that libXpw.so can be rebuilt.

    chmod -R u+w $popsys $usepop/pop/extern/lib

2. Give this command to do the re-linking

    $popsrc/newpop -link -x=-xm -xpw -norsv

(You may want to save copies of both $popsys and extern/lib in case
relinking doesn't work).

Alternatively just fetch the prelinked version and install it in
place of the old one.


> My guess is that the menu package requires poplog to be statically linked
> to OpenMotif? At the time I get this mishap XVed is running in a XWindows
> window
> (under OpenMotif). I assume that propsheet should behave itself, if it does
> not require OpenMotif to be statically linked. Am I right?

Propsheet and the pui/menu package work fine with open motif on my dell
laptop.

However the pui+menu libraries, originally produced for use by students
here in Birmingham, have not been used for over a year, as the
functionality has been completely replaced by rclib+rcmenu which has
no dependence on either motif or propsheet, and is much easier to change
(e.g. altering colours, fonts, and other features of control panels,
adding dials, diagonal sliders, etc.)

If you want to try this fetch rclib.tar.gz and rcmenu.tar.gz and untar
both into $poplocal/local then run the install scripts to set up
links to work with "uses", then
    uses rcmenu

then in ved
    ENTER menu

brings up the top level menu(control panel), from which you can get
others.

If you have not installed the stuff in bhamteach.tar.gz in your
poplog/local directory then there may be pointers to teach files or
utilities that you don't have. But they should not be essential.
(The same problem can arise with the older pui+menu package based
on propsheet).

The current defaults for rclib+rcmenu are for inexperienced programmers.
Maybe a set of defaults for more experienced people should be available.

The actual menu panels are all autoloadable, and easily changed. They
are in rcmenu/menus/*.p and can be browsed in
    http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/poplog/rcmenu/menus/

It's all very "declarative", and a menu definition can be recompiled at
any time to facilitate development and testing.

Alternatively if you simply want to learn to drive Ved just read these
files:

    $usepop/pop/help/vedkeys
    $usepop/pop/teach/vedsearch
    $usepop/pop/ref/vedcomms
    $usepop/pop/ref/vedprocs
    $usepop/pop/ref/vedvars

I've collected some of the most useful stuff together for our students
in here:

    http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/poplog/teach/vednotes

I hope that helps

Aaron
===
Aaron Sloman, ( http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/~axs/ )
School of Computer Science, The University of Birmingham, B15 2TT, UK
EMAIL A.Sloman AT cs.bham.ac.uk   (ReadATas@please !)
PAPERS: http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/cogaff/
FREE TOOLS: http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/poplog/freepoplog.html





Aaron