pete@jwgibbs.cchem.Berkeley.EDU (Pete Goodeve) wrote:
> Ever since then I've been
> trying to get my hands on a working system that I could actually *use*.
> I was therefore delighted to find that poplog is now freely available for
> Linux, so I downloaded a copy. However, my frustration continues...
I had similar experiences.
> ...
>cd $usepop/pop/pop
>ls -l pop11
-rwxr-xr-x 12 pete users 1861234 Aug 21 2000 pop11*
>./pop11
./pop11: Command not found.
> Can someone please give me a clue as to what might be going on?
You have got the right exec-permission. So ?
> This does happen to be an older RedHat Linux, ...
Later:
>> I've found the 'mini-linux' version compiled for libc5, and -- Yaay!
So the v1553 needs libc6 ?
And your version of Linux can handle the 'mini-linux' version.
Does this enable you to access the very valuable tutoring material
in ver. 1553, which you down loaded ?
V1553 is so much more than a pop-11 system.
Don't loose the value of the substantial tutoring material in ver. 1553
which is so well integrated into the sytem with 'helps'...etc.
A.Sloman@cs.bham.ac.uk wrote:
> ... being used for instruction at Sussex..
> and a number of other places, including the University of Birmingham
> ..also in Oklahoma...
> ..and at the University of Notre Dame, Indiana
> ..and in Griffiths University in Australia ...and in other places.
Apparently these are all live supervised instruction ?
I'd like to know how many isolated users progressed to become
mature users, handling non trivial projects.
pop-11 is a big language -- apparently extended over years.
The tutoring material (IMO) of V1553 starts out brilliantly
( I can define this, but it's a long story) and then loses it's
abnormal quality. It's not easy to write a tutor that combines
a graduated intro to a new language via AI examples.
Rather than press on under uncomfortable effort, I decided to back
off and try to analyse what was missing from later tutoring material,
which made the initial material so good.
Although I think I know what is required, this is necessarily subjective
and needs testing by feedback, the same way as designed coding need
to run on a machine to be tested. It's not certain that mature user(s)
are competent to evaluate tutoring material. I suspect it needs to be
'run against ignorant beginners' ?
In the enviroment of a class room of several beginners, the live
tutor gets feedback to refine the material. How do we 'run', test
and refine tutoring material for remote-via-inet users ?
While Pete Goodeve is still enthusiastic, it would be good
(for all future users) if he could have access to the river-boat
(was it called ? I haven't seen poplog for months) tutoring material.
And then 'test' my effort at consolidating the several fragmented
attempts at the tutors which handle 'searching' through state-space.
I believe there's a direct analogy between writing computer code and
writing tutors:
* need to be 'designed' based on a set of principles, rather than evolved
ad lib.
* need to be test run against appropriate enviroment - i.e. learners.
pete@jwgibbs.cchem.Berkeley.EDU (Pete Goodeve) writes:
> In the meantime, I don't know if anyone's interested, or if the
> veddists will throw up their hands in horror, but I decided I needed
> a different way of reading the docs. I must confess that one thing
> I find a bit antiquated is reading the docs via VED. It's partly
> that the navigation keys are different by default (which I have now
> fixed, having found how to use vedinit.p) but more that reading
> through a ten-line window is a pain. For the extensive reading I
> need to do at this stage a web browser is much more convenient.
Apparently because it was done by person(s) with a strong background
in AI & cognitive science, V1553 is much more than 'docs'. It's a finely
tuned programmed-tutor. Can your web browser follow the structure ?
Are you aware that change in IO enviroment brings only short lived
subjective discomfort ? The 'smooth' initial intro to poplog together
with the natural syntax of pop-11, IMO, gives a false impression of
what's involved in progressing upto non-trivial AI applications.
I'm emphasising the long run vs. the initial enthusiasm.
I really think that the great value of V1553 which has evolved over
years by much labour, can be 'tuned up' by relatively little extra
effort, for use by remote-via-inet-users. Understandably the inet-users
must contribute some labour.
The new inet technology mandates that we must use different methods
to leaverage the existing material. The possible future large number
of poplog users, can't expect the privilege (as I had) of being hand-fed
by Aaron Sloman.
-- Chris Glur.
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