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Date:Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:36:37 +0000 (UTC) 
Subject:Re: 15.53 - Windows Installer Available 
From:jeffb 
Volume-ID: 

Brent,

In message <20040227004202.11427.qmail@web80312.mail.yahoo.com>, Brent 
Fulgham <bfulg@pacbell.net> writes
>--- Aaron Sloman <A.Sloman@cs.bham.ac.uk> wrote:
>> I guess you did not notice that there's an
>> openpoplog sourceforge
>> project, initiated by Jeff Best described here:
>>
>>
>http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/poplog/openpoplog.html
>
>Actually, I did see this but was unable to
>successfully download anything.  They have a note that
>their site that downloads are temporarily disabled due
>to a RAID problem.
>

I'm surprised that all ten or so mirrors are affected simultaneously?
Anyway, it seems to be back now.

>I can grab the CVS sources, but I've not yet puzzled
>out how to build Poplog from sources.  It looks like
>it requires a working Poplog to bootstrap from.
>

At http://openpoplog.sourceforge.net/OpenPoplogBuild.html you will find 
rudimentary instructions on building the latest code, directly from the 
CVS. Essentially, you will need the cvsbuild.bat script, which can be 
found at cvsroot/openpoplog/poplog/pop/com/bat/cvsbuild.bat in the 
repository, or if you've already checked out the latest "poplog" module, 
then in %usepop%\pop\com\bat. Alternatively, with minor modifications 
(i.e. extra command options to the mkpoplog call), the code example on 
that page should work.

In addition to cvsbuild, you will need Micosoft's Visual C++, their 
processor pack to supply assembler and linker and a CVS client.

There is currently no script to perform cvsbuild followed by creation of 
a setup pack, although once the two existing processes have been 
verified, a combination can be scripted that we can release with 
confidence that no files will be missed and no extraneous files 
introduced. At the moment, cvsbuild is probably exporting extraneous 
files.

>> You may have duplicated some of their work -- or
>> possibly gone
>> beyond it.

The current status of OpenPoplog for Windows is:

1. A couple of Birmingham patches need applying.
2. Two outstanding bugs are awaiting fixes.
3. A bootstrap download for the %usepop%\pop\pop binary files is 
available, and Roger tells me that this appears to work, although he is 
not sure if the init.p file should be included.
I have a full setup pack for the SourceForge code-base. I have started 
the process of verifying its contents, which is a long job when there 
are several thousand files in a couple of hundred directories.

I am currently in the last few days of another project, and hence very 
busy dotting Is and crossing Ts.  I can get back to our setup pack task 
some time towards the end of next week, but if any volunteer wishes to 
do the job for us, we'd be very happy to accept.

>>Most of the discussion of this has not
>> been posted to
>> pop-forum/comp.lang.pop but to the much smaller
>> poplog-dev email
>> list, to which I can add you if you wish (or
>> subscribe to
>> poplog-dev via majordomo@cs.bham.ac.uk, as you did
>> to pop-forum).
>
>Doing so now!
>
>> Nico has been working especially on trying to add
>> graphics to
>> poplog in a new way, building up from what he is
>> most familiar
>> with, whereas Jeff has been focused mainly on
>> getting poplog to
>> run under cygwin on windows using X window graphics.

I should mention here, Roger Evans, who has been providing advice, 
support and doing the odd bit of testing, Jonathan Cunningham who has 
been providing advice and support in between rewriting his company's 
core software, and Steve Leach who has also been providing advice and is 
probably working on some improvements that we hope to see soon.

>
>The native design is probably best from a long-term
>point of view.  However, the Cygwin approach will
>probably yield the fastest results.
>

I haven't worked on the Cygwin build for a couple of months. I had made 
some progress persuading the C sources to compile, but realised that I 
had disabled some essential functionality to get that far. I probably 
need to resume the process using a set of Linux sources, instead of the 
Windows sources I have been working with. This is no longer a priority 
for me, and is getting very little attention, although I will get back 
to it eventually.

I have been trying to focus on moving the SourceForge-located code base 
into a usable state with documentation and downloads. I have recently 
posted HTML versions of DOC and REF files 
(http://openpoplog.sourceforge.net/doc/ and 
http://openpoplog.sourceforge.net/ref/), courtesy of David Young's 
ved_html script and Anthony Worrall's pages at Reading. I need to 
convert (or source) the HELP and TEACH files, and I'd like to script a 
web-equivalent of SHOWLIB to check-out current LIB files and convert 
them to HTML that I can put behind the links to Pop-11 code pages.

I have found that the HTML pages I have so far posted are easier to 
navigate than the Windows VED versions, although that may just mean I am 
better at using Mozilla than VED.

My main goals for Poplog at the moment are:

Integrate Aaron's remaining changes into the code base (or confirm they 
are already present).
Produce or acquire a reliable release pack.
Post a full release.
Experiment with exload to load COM/ActiveX objects.
Modify exload to handle binary interfaces and type libraries.
   Probably needs an IDL parser.
Create a simple ActiveX wrapper for Poplog so I can embed in other 
systems.
Construct an objectclass/ActiveX wrapper (ill-defined goal)
Rebuild the website using an open source content manager
Develop cross-platform support for binary interfaces and type libraries.
Get Poplog to build under Cygwin, MinGW and Unix Services for Windows.

>> > A single-file installer can be found here:
>> >
>> > http://www.debian.org/~bfulgham/poplog/windows
>> > (It's called setup.exe).
>>
>> Thanks. If/when you think its in a suitable state to
>> be added to
>> the bham poplog distribution site I'll be happy to
>> copy it over.
>
>It's close.  I realized I do have VED working -- I
>just didn't realize because the directories are
>currently set up wrong.  I'm uploading another build
>shortly.
>
>I've incorporated the OpenPoplog Win 2000 stuff to see
>if there's any noticeable difference.
>

The really useful file would be your *.iss file for driving InnoSetup. 
My version is quite complicated because I'm trying to support 
half-a-dozen different installation options, e.g. "All Platforms", 
"Windows Full", "Binaries only", etc. From an administration point of 
view, once this is set up, I think it will be easier to maintain.

I have just checked in my version of the script, called poplog15.54.iss. 
You should find it in the repository at 
/CVSROOT/openpoplog/poplog/build.

Your script may be simpler, and by virtue of being ready to use, better.

>> There was a lot of discussion about this in the
>> poplog-dev email
>> list. I could try to hunt it down if you wish. Or
>> maybe someone
>> else will supply the information.
>
>I'm interested in how to bootstrap.  I use Windows at
>work, but Debian at home and I'd like to get a
>smoother install (i.e., more integrated) for Debian.
>

(I'm not sure if, by "smoother install for Debian", you mean you want to 
use the same download to install the Windows and Debian downloads, or if 
you just mean that you want a better-scripted Debian install?)

It is my aim that the code base at SourceForge should be a consolidated 
code base from which we can pull off distributions for any supported 
platform.

I'd like to reach a point where my SuSE, Windows and Solaris 
installations all operate from a single network file-share with 
virtually all the files common.

Given that a large number of the documentation files need to be brought 
up to date (particularly regarding the Windows version), life would be a 
lot simpler to have only a single set to manage. At the moment, like 
everyone else, I have Zip and tar.gz packages that duplicate a lot of 
components.

Eventually, I'd like to lose the Windows batch script build that I've 
written. It was a useful tool for experimenting with different 
configurations of the process, but is not portable. I'd like to return 
to Rob Duncan's original approach 
(http://openpoplog.sourceforge.net/doc/nt.html#heading5) of using 
makefiles, or if we have to, POSIX scripts that will work across every 
platform.

We are happy to accept any contributions that will help us achieve these 
targets sooner.

>Thanks,
>
>-Brent
>

I finish one distracting project within days, so may have some time for 
concentrated Poplog effort. I am being persuaded to apply for a 3-6 
month contract in Newcastle, that will separate me from my systems for 
long periods. I was hoping to have them set up for secure remote access 
before this happened, but for various reasons, progress has been 
delayed. I may decide that Newcastle is too far away, and I'd rather 
spend a few weeks alternately playing with Poplog and integrating some 
refactoring tools into the VB IDE before I'm next asked to implement VB 
programs against a constantly mutating specification, while watching the 
Chaffinches playing in the garden. Since demand for IT services seems to 
have picked up, this may be a risk worth taking.

Regards,
-- 
Jeff